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 Updated Guide To Shooting

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coheed&cambria

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PostSubject: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:43 am

As some of you are aware in the past I added a "guide" to shooting simply by taking the coding out of the iso and slapping it on the forums. As most people didn't understand the variables that affect the shooting probably in the coding, this improved guide will attempt to explain the main factors.

*Shot Ratings Weight = 0.10 # Character difference on the shooting. Dictates the bonus by rating
Shot Net Open Weight = 0.475 # Likelyhood of scoring, How open the net is (goalie/player positioning)
Shot Player Distance Weight = 0.325 # Likelyhood of scoring, How open the player is, the remainder of these two value is much is based on shot charging (up to 1.0)*

These are the 3 main important factors, and this was copy/pasted directly from one of the files programmed into MSC. Its important to understand immediately that these are percentages, so moving the decimal over two places to the right shows how heavily weighted the stat is in terms of percentage. So what do they mean?

The shot ratings weight is how the character type, strong shooter, medium, or weak shooter affects whether a shot will go in. In the character files, strong shooters are listed as 1.0, medium as 0.5, and weak characters as 0.0. These values are then multiplied by the .10 of the shot ratings weight then converted to a percentage. This means that all strong shooters off the bat have an additional 10% chance of their shot going in; medium characters 5%; and weak characters 0% bonus from this category.

Shot net open weight refers to the positioning of kritter relative to the net versus the positioning of the ball relative to the net. In layman's terms, how much of the net (via angle) is being shown to the shooter despite the presence of kritter. A few things can change this value, such as the curve that heavy players put on their shot, and the loft that medium and weak characters put on their shots, making the value more relative to the path the shot takes rather than the position of the actual character, when applicable. As this stat accounts for nearly 50% of why a shot does or doesn't go in, this explains why setups, which draw kritter out of position, are so effective.

Shot player distance weight, influencing 32.5% of the shooting efficiency, relies on how far away the shooting player is from the goal. Therefore, the further away from the goal the player is, the less likely the shot is to go in. However, this stat often contradicts the second stat, because normally, the closer the player gets to the goal, more and more of the shooting angle will be cut down by kritter. This is why shots from right in front of kritter will nearly never score, despite having the greatest percentage from the player distance category. This again validates why setups are viable, because a setup would allow a player to get closer to the net while keeping kritter out of position as a result of the pass. As this stat also indicates, the remaining 10 percentage points are determined by how charged the shot is. To be clear this is not red vs white ball, that is a separate coded issue. This guide is just focusing on the assumption that all shots are white ball shots. What this value refers to is how long the b button is held down. As a result, a one-timer shot will have an addition 0% chance of going in while a shot taken at the last possible frame before a skillshot or megastrike occurs will have an additional 10% chance of scoring.

So those are the pure numbers, but what can you do to ensure that you're taking the best shots? Well I made some diagrams of some common shots and setups that will help explain why they work and how to make the most of them.

Example: Cross Court Pass
SHOW DIAGRAM:
 

The cross court pass works because kritter, k, who is facing player a, does not have enough time to adjust to a perfect stance facing player b, who can take a one-time shot off the pass from player a at a near entirely open net from his perspective. If player a is in his own back court, then kritter will automatically be set to the furthest forward position he can be, and the further to the corner player a is, the further towards the corner kritter will be. However, if player a crosses midfield, the further he comes, the further kritter will back up, making the angle worse for the shooting player. Therefore, the cross court pass works best when the passing player is in the corner just behind midfield so that kritter is the furthest out and the pass has the shortest travel time from a to b, giving kritter the least chance to re-position.

Example: Off The Wall Pass
SHOW DIAGRAM:
 

This setup is especially powerful because it allows the passer two passing options, preventing the defending player from just putting a defender in a passing lane and automatically stopping the setup. When player a chips the ball off the wall, kritter automatically defaults to the exact furthest positioning from the goal he can be in, making the shot more likely to go in. Since kritter is so far off his line, player a can do an aerial pass to player b, who can take a shot past kritter. This only works with aerial passes since if the pass is a ground pass, the player won't have an angle to get the shot past kritter. However with aerial passes, since kritter is on the ground, the player can shoot the ball over and past kritter. This works especially well with light characters, since their shots loft upwards initially before falling. If the player a to player b option is blocked, then the pass can be a ground pass to player c, who can take a shot that functions just like the cross court pass. This will not work as well with aerial passes, since they travel slower, kritter has more time to adjust.

Example: Best Way To Shoot Aerials
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To make aerials consistently, player a should bring the ball up from the back field towards center court. As the player does this, the ai controlled characters will also push up the field to maintain their programmed level of spacing. Once near midcourt, player a should do an aerial pass to the front player who is most wide open. When passing from the middle of the field, the pass should lead player b towards the corner of the penalty box, giving the shooting player angles both above and past kritter. Again this works best with, but is not limited to, light players because their loft will make the shot easier to go over kritter.

Example: Best Way To Make Random Shots
SHOW DIAGRAM:
 

Player a should be positioned in the back corner as to draw kritter further off his line. Player a should also be a power character taking a charged shot to earn every percentage possible. The more the ball is charged before releasing the shot, the more the shot will hook and the harder it will be shot. If you watch the way the shots function, you will notice that the shot immediately begins to hook outwards, pushing it away from kritters range. The ball will then straighten out and push straight for the goal, while at this point having a clear path to the net because kritter was positioned at the far corner of the goalie box. This is the highest percentage non-setup shot that can be taken, and is never a bad shot. This shot works best with Birdo or DK since their shots have a higher release point, and therefore a higher trajectory making them harder for kritter to reach.

Thanks for reading, and hope this guide is beneficial to you. If there are any more questions you have about this guide then feel free to ask away in a comment below and I will try my best to answer it.
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Miles
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:14 pm

Awesome post jimmy. I'll have a lot more questions when i get home. But for starters have you tried changing these values to test out shooting probability?
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coheed&cambria

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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:42 pm

not sure i know what you mean. the values i took from the coding are the different variables that affect whether or not a shot can go in, and the percentages by those values represent how much that variable can determine whether the shot will score. Since those are the max values, it has to add up to 100% and can't be changed. Its like a test with different sections all weighted differently, the most you can score is 100% of the time, but just because you did well in one section does not mean you did well overall. So if we took the shot to net open variable, even if you did that perfectly, it will only increase your percentage of scoring by a maximum of 47.5%. However if you didn't do it perfectly and only some of the net was open, the game may give you anywhere from an extra .01% chance of scoring to 47.4% extra chance, just based on how open the net was. So i can't change those values, each unique individual shot will have its chance of scoring only determined when the shot is actually taken. And because of how many values come into play, it would be near impossible to recreate the exact same shot and create a testable probability chart for a single shot. The only way to understand the probability of each shot you take in game would be to comprehend the variables and how they apply to the game and make an educated guess about which shots are good looks.

*Quick side note though, the shot net open weight can actually become higher than its max value, but only in extreme cases. this variable was programmed under the assumption that kritter would always be in the goalie box, so if you manage to get him out of the goalie box with some bullshit like belgium waffle or chasing a dream then the value can go above 47.5%. almost wasn't worth noting though since that should have been clear as day anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:26 pm

I guess ibwas curious about the hacking capability with this knowledge. For example peach has a shot value of 0.0. Could you hack her value to have 1.0 to shoot like a power shooter? And also if you were to change hard coded values so that they would all equal 100% but give less priority to distance from the goal, is it possible? I may have to reword that later lol.

edit: with this info in the code, how do you feel about the concept of guaranteed 100% setups? Because the code does say that even if a shot is very probable there is always the chance it won't go in
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:33 pm

"What this value refers to is how long the b button is held down. As a result, a one-timer shot will have an addition 0% chance of going in while a shot taken at the last possible frame before a skillshot or megastrike occurs will have an additional 10% chance of scoring."

This part is really interesting to me. Is this saying that on setup shots, the percentage is increased if you hold the B button down? To make clearer, when the ball is coming to the shooter, does holding the B button increase the chance of scoring?If so, I need to start holding down the B button more.

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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:19 pm

I'm gonna assume that when you say light characters have an advantage when doing aerial shots that DK probably has a similar advantage since he jumps so high for his aerials. When in the air DK literally has to shoot the ball down to make it go in the goal.
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:26 pm

So how would this apply to the shooter?

So what's the best shot, probability wise? Is it a power shooter from the corner pocket?

From experience, the cross court diagram you showed seems to go in 100% of the time if executed correctly. Tricksters even do this with Boo -> Waluigi. The 'B' character should be shifted more right and down more though.

I'm trying to understand the implications.
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:29 pm

Good info and thanks for posting this CC.
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:34 pm

yeah shadow, dk has a very good aerial because of his height and jump. every characters aerial percentages depend highly on that, and on the pass as well. some passes are placed higher, as you see how sometimes aerial passes are headed in and some are only foot high. this is why i find light characters more consistent, because their loft allows them to compensate for passes that arent as high.

no tangy, a one timer is always given the 0% chance. the character has to have the ball in their possession, with the b button being held down. this would actually be bad on setups, because that would mean allowing kritter time to adjust to the shooter before the shot is taken. this stat is mostly applicable to random shots, wherein an item shot will always be better than a touch shot, by as much as 10%.

yes miles, that is entirely possible, and there are mods of that in existence, as joker and ferrer made some i believe. halr and i have played it before, and im pretty sure joker has a video on it. the only problem is both people playing have to have the same mod applied or the game will freeze. you can change the values, but its real only use would be to make a faster paced fucked up game.

and tnm, the best shot in all reality is a power shot with birdo or dk from the corner pocket. youre right, a perfectly executed cross court will go in essentially every time, but it requires many factors to be in place and a substantial amount of setup that can be easy to block if the opponent reads it, or simply failed if not done entirely correctly. by the time you factor in all the missed setups you had because you werent perfectly positioned or didnt make the right pass, or all the times the defense stopped it, you would probably find that you had a better percentage by item cycling corner shots with a power character. of course i am by no means implying that setups are bad, but that they are best used sparingly and in tandem with regular shots. while setups are great, they are not good enough to try and "force" and should only be done when the opportunity presents itself
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:35 pm

So you take the best possible shot, given the situation. Even if the opponent didn't even touch the controller, there'd still be the same percentage of the shot going in, regardless of the shot.

It's stupid how there's a clear shooting advantage with Birdo and DK. They are simply better, probability wise, than the other power shooters (and balanced shooters). The way Birdo's shot curves more and the height of DK's hand-shots are clearly better, even to the naked eye. It's sad that this was overseen in the development of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:37 pm

I'm curious now about lob shots (z+b). What determines if critter is going to fall over? You'd think it would be the distance between kritter and the goal and also kritter and the ball, but I haven't always found it to be true
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PostSubject: Re: Updated Guide To Shooting   Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:31 am

@ miles, for chip shots everything remains the same, but shot net open weight and shot player distance weight are replaced by the following two variables:

Chip Shot Goalie Out Weight = 0.40 # How far is the goalie out of his net
Chip Shot Net Open Weight = 0.40 # Likelyhood of scoring, How open the net is (goalie/player positioning)

in addition, kritter has some lines of coding in his shot reactions section that indicate how he plays lobs. il just leave the entire section here in case any of it interests you.

# SHOTS AND SAVES
Save Turn Speed = 100000.0 # how fast the goalie can turn to face a shot
Save Turn Falloff = 4000.0 # how fast to accelerate to turn speed
Save Back Run Scale = 1.5 # timescale for the backward run while positioning for a save (mostly for lob shot)
Save Ignore Margin = 1.0 # how wide (meters) of the net the ball should miss before ignoring shot
Miss Save Delay = 0.08 # when a miss should be played, delay the save by this many seconds
Lob Shot Stumble Chance = 0.3 # when a lob should go in, play the stumble this often (0.0=never, 1.0=always)
Intercept Save Tolerance = 0.5 # how close goalie needs to get to ball to try intercepting pass
Catch Save Tolerance = 0.9 # how close goalie should be to catch ball during a save
Catch Save Max Speed = 0.5 # shots harder than this will never trigger a catch save (range 0->1)

so even given the best lob, there is still only a 30% chance that kritter will stumble. however, just because he does or doesnt stumble does not always dictate whether the shot will score, but does have a substantial weight on it. this section also explains why and how the medium character red ball shots work, since they go so far high of the post kritter plays it as a miss and delays his dive, only for the ball to then fall back into position to score.
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