teles / skillshots?

Ok, because of all the controversy, i thought i would bring this up. Is tele/skillshot "noob"? I mean as much as most of you hate euro play style, some times i gotta fight for them. I mean think about it, teles are extremely easy. And a lot of us bring up the point that they are easy to block, but then again so are boo dekes, but they are still considered "noob".

The thing is, I see where Euros are coming from and I might even argue that their play style is more "elite" becuase the intent of their playstyle is to only allow for "elite" goals. THink about it, even if your opponent is on a breakaway, and they could easily go for a serve it in, what would you think if they instead chose to boo deke? Is it possible for us to see things from their perspective?

By removing teleports and skillshots, you're removing the essence of the game.

The trickster's repertoire would be destroyed without the teleport. With their logic, why even allow the tele on the field, to deke opponents? It's an essential part of the trickster's game; even the CPU in game uses it.

Even more ridiculous is removing skillshots. EACH character has an animation when the B button is held down all the way - captains do megastrikes and sidekicks perform skillshots. If you are removing skillshots and teleports, might as well remove megastrikes. Even though megastrikes are not mentioned or used, they should be given that stupid rule. Skillshots are also the essence of a shooter's skillset as well.

Removing both teles and skillshots harms both the trickster's and shooter's game.

This encourages goalie camping (spamming Z+A in hopes to steal the ball) because there is essentially no danger in knowing the opponent will do something that will put the ball in the back of the net e.g. teleport or skillshot.

Nubs.

while miles has a valid point that teles and skillshots are easily performed, but i agree with tnm. without skillshots and teles, the game has 0 mindgames and home will win EVERY match played, because the only thing you can do would be bug spray and titans. goalie camping would eliminate every other trick, and home would win titans and bugspray balls. without those two facets of the game, the metagame is destroyed and we are left with nothing.

but to be honest, i have played euro rules a few times. not used a single tele, skillshot, mid court chip, deathlob, or crystal smash and still beaten jokers home wally. so id say that makes them the noobs, im just gonna keep playing how i want. if they want to complain about our styles, then im gonna let them, but i wont be listening.

btw guys, im for tele goals. im just trying to open debate for the other side. but I mean i DO see where the euros are coming from.

I think that an argument stating that teles are always acceptable might be a little unreasonable in certain contexts.

Take for example the classic ranked spammer. Technically if you wanted to, you could tele every single goal. This is very possible even in competitive play if you wanted to be an asshole. How? Items and breakaways. Trust me ppl would rage at this style of play, but its "legit" becasue the game allows it.

I really don't believe that at all. Doing a skill shot or teleport means that you (on defense) are far away from them and are caught out of position. This makes them legit because the time it takes to do them is countered by what "good" defense should be.

but wally what about the tricksters who intentionally set themselves up for tele goals just as luigibrawl sets himself up with items for power shots? i mean if they charge it and pass to db. they have a white ball. they shoot red shells out and boom you're fucked. i mean, they could set themselves up like this, and technically its legitimate. dont you think thats kinda nooby?

thats a valid point miles, i think there should be a limit on teles. there basically is an unwritten rule about that, unless you wanna be a dick, more than two is unnecessary. they should come at spaced out increments during the game while your opponent is behind kritter, that way they are used as a mindgame and effective trick, when other tricks are unperformable.

the way i see it, telling a trickster not to tele or skillshot is like saying "oh, any noob on ranked can take a white ball charge shot and get a lucky goal, from now on shooters are only allowed to shoot if its a set up."

as you all know, im generally the last person to buy into teles. but recently i have been starting to re think that, and i just dont see how euros can sustain that argument

I considered tele's for a goal to be a bit noobish since you don't have the confidence to nail the trick for the goal, assuming you are using a trickster team. The tele across the court is totally legit, it's part of the game and you are able to potentially breakdown the defense more.

As for skillshots, many of us use the DB/Boo skillshot to just fuck with our mind in what is going to come next. I'm aware most of us know that if a Boo/DB skill shot that goes in on a white ball could be considered "luck" but its part of the game.

I'm fine with them but I just think that the tele's into the goal require less skill than all other potential tricks/moves but its whatever. I'm already known for being a lucky shooter at many times so idk if my statements are 100% valid

while were at it we should call serve it ins and serve it ups nooby since they are easy to pull off and can be auto goals with items.

the amount of skill something requires shouldnt reflect whether its cheap or not

Quote :

while were at it we should call serve it ins and serve it ups nooby since they are easy to pull off and can be auto goals with items.

LOL

I'm pretty sure you should know, looking at your skill level, that telegoals are MUCH easier to perform than Serve-it-in's and Serve-it-up's. Both require precise timing with the Z button, while telegoals only need to tap the D-Pad... The first can be highly affected while being stressed and pressured during an intense match and have less chance of scoring, unlike the second...
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I'm a North American, but I've been trained by Europeans in my early competitive MSC years. My own playstyle is based on Europeans', especially the French's : shooting + item cycling. I shall quote LuigiBrawl, my teacher and mentor, and thank him for bringing me up to the top leagues.

You should guess : I am against telegoals, yes. I myself possess a Dry Bones on my team, but I can't remember the last time I telegoal'ed. Oh, and I personally always ask my opponent before the match to not use them. But sure, I am ready to use them under tournament rules..

Telegoals are noobish, and I badly judge people who use them, to the same degree of insta-chip's. They are extremely easy to perform, hard to block, doesn't require any specific skill, make the match a lot less epic, annoy the opponent falling for a cheap goal...

By the way, Waluigi is god-like enough even when he doesn't use telegoals... And Boo deke is banned, isn't it? Why shouldn't telegoal'ing be the same? And I'm not talking about normal teleporting all over the field!
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I suppose I don't mind skillshots... But I don't see the point of using them, excluding with fast sidekicks, because they are great for mindgames and an excellent substitute for the slow sidekicks' strong normal shots. On the downside, you can't get items with skillshots. So overall, they're legit.

I'll start with skillshots. You're kidding me right? Skillshots? Cheap? How??
I dont even have to use them really. They take too long to charge up and most aren't that affective. The only one what really is is Hammer Bro's and seriously, how often do you get to use that?

As for teles think of it this way: Youre controlling DB. You get worked into a corner. Your opponent is either goalie camping/close enough if you move in for any type of chip you will get side tackled or body checked and lose the ball. The only possible way to score is with a tele from the corner or with a just about impossible shot.
Why give up the ball out of honor when you can score and win? EVEN CPUs USE TELE GOALS. THEY WERE MEANT TO BE IN THE GAME. The point of this game is to win! Not protect some moral code!

BTW i made a similar (but different thread) in general MSC discussion. Post stuff there too. And Miles may want to move that thread to this section

As long as a technique does not reduce or hamper the metagame then it is fine to use. Telegoals and Skillshots do none of that.

Everything except Boo Deking, teleporting excessively, non-Boo skillshots, and glitching are fine with me.

yea im raping the forums right now but whatever..

Teles are easily so controversial its not even funny. I mean they dont take skill and like miles said people shield themselves so they can use them... kinda stupid imo. like if your good enough to shield yourself your good enough to do something else to score. and batman, if you were to talk to someone that sucks as a trickster they could still beat you without tricking but simply doing teles. serve it up may be easy to me and you but some people flat out suck. the two tricks are dfferent platforms. and skillshots arent nooby at all. i do agree with wally said, if you let up a deep skill shot your simply 1. not focussing or 2. just out of position.

Overall i always hated how people excluded teles as nooby when the boo deke was counted as a noob trick. like wtf, boos deke takes 2x more skill to pull off then charging and pressing the pad haha. then people also dgaf about toads deke lol.. idk teleing is stupid imo but ss's are totally legit imo.

When ppl tele me, i feel it is nooby. Thats just a personal feeling, but i wont flame ppl who do it.

For me these are on the same level:

tele
boo deke
toad jump
insta

The reason i dont like tele and boo deke is because if you're on a breakaway, they're just too easy. For ppl who pride themselves on playing at a "pro" level, you do something that ppl who have been playing the game for 1 hour do.

There is just so little risk involved.

The "ease" with which a tactic can be executed isnt reason for ppl to be mad, but i do prefer that ppl take some risk occasionally. when im on sky, i dont want to feel like im playing a ranked match.

E-Ray wrote:

yea im raping the forums right now but whatever..

Teles are easily so controversial its not even funny. I mean they dont take skill and like miles said people shield themselves so they can use them... kinda stupid imo. like if your good enough to shield yourself your good enough to do something else to score. and batman, if you were to talk to someone that sucks as a trickster they could still beat you without tricking but simply doing teles. serve it up may be easy to me and you but some people flat out suck. the two tricks are dfferent platforms. and skillshots arent nooby at all. i do agree with wally said, if you let up a deep skill shot your simply 1. not focussing or 2. just out of position.

Overall i always hated how people excluded teles as nooby when the boo deke was counted as a noob trick. like wtf, boos deke takes 2x more skill to pull off then charging and pressing the pad haha. then people also dgaf about toads deke lol.. idk teleing is stupid imo but ss's are totally legit imo.

post is irrelevant, i could beat a bad trickster 7-0 even if he was allowed as many tele's as he wants. Again, just because a move doesnt take skill doesnt mean it should be controversial. Next thing your gonna tell me is random shooting should be banned since it doesnt take skill mash B

Skilshots can be abused so badly it's not even funny, considering how much lucky you can get in a game,a good enough player can be an item cunt and use tele's all day (Yea/Hi). Skillshots are only good for the player if the player has good item control, now is it cheap? Hell no, easy counterable and it takes like 2-3 seconds of charge to get it to work? That is bad, yet people think it's noobish.

As for teles are concerned, they require no skill, any 5 year old can learn how to do it in 5 minutes, boo dekes and toad dekes for me are more legit than tele's just because they are way harder to pull off, I've been trying to master the deke and I still can't even get it 50 percent of the time, and boo dekes/toad dekes are just as easy to block as a tele so i don't see why those are so banned.